Hello...

Can somebody please tell me, if i still can use the extenions i used for UD4??

Thanks

Grrrr
Matthijs
----------------
UD4/WY2K/IIS/ASP-VB

from the MX FAQ on this site:

Q: Are the extensions on this site MX compatible?
A: None of the extensions at this site have explicitely been written for any MX product. Macromedia has spend much effort to not break any extensions not written for the MX release. Unfortunately, there have been made several changes which cause extensions made for previous versions to fail in MX. We have not been able to test all the extensions that are available at this site (over 150!) and we'll never be. It's best to try and find out yourself whether an extension works in MX or not. Please let us know when you think an extension does not work in MX anymore.

www.udzone.com/go?3279

Indeed, thanks for the pointer Jos!

Waldo Smeets -- www.UDzone.com Co-Founder
------------------------------------------
UDzone.com: The site for Macromedia
Dreamweaver UltraDev Developers!

there's hope for existing extensions, this message is posted at the DW MX exhange:

Note: The Dreamweaver Exchange does not support the Dreamweaver MX Preview Release. The Dreamweaver extensibility layer has undergone many changes since Dreamweaver and UltraDev 4. Many extensions may not work with Dreamweaver MX. We are working with extension developers to help update their extensions.

With kind regards,

Dennis van Galen
Webmaster KPN Services
Financial and Information Services

I know that most extension developers are not willing to update all their extensions at the exchange. Updating an extension is a lot of work, uploading it again to the exchange takes even more time. So be aware.

Waldo Smeets -- www.UDzone.com Co-Founder
------------------------------------------
UDzone.com: The site for Macromedia
Dreamweaver UltraDev Developers!

Yet another reason NOT to buy Dreamweaver MX. The preview looks good, but there's absolutely NO WAY I am going to shell out more cash for the same extension I JUST BOUGHT.

Also, why buy something that you'll just have to pay more for (re-buying extensions, upgrades, etc.) and that ultimately, because it is not backward compatible with old extensions, you get LESS functionality out of?

I partially agree with you. I still feel limited with DWMX simply because I can not use all server behaviors that I had for UD4. On the other hand.... the other improvements have been great, and for me defenitely a reason to update. Now let's hope that Macromedia makes it to keep the product backwards compatiable when it's about the extensions.

Waldo Smeets -- www.UDzone.com Co-Founder
------------------------------------------
UDzone.com: The site for Macromedia
Dreamweaver UltraDev Developers!

Well, sorry to say it seems to me that macromedia is very much impressed form Bill gates. It looks great but more functions??
Well i would say with the extensions and server behaviours that i use with UD4, MX is not worth it. Apart from that only thing that looks great is the ASP net and PHP usuage.
So people i am for the very first time disappointed from macromedia.
My condolence to Massimo as they now included a snipet panel. Apart from that as far as i have tested the look has changed but rest is almost the same.
Most disappointing is that they didn't even added a single new server behaviour.
Regards

The reason I don't like extensions much is their dependence on software (in this case UD). You can't use them with some other programs so, if you ever stop using Macromedia's products you wasted time writing them. Includes are much better way to go. You write a code that can be reused, put it at separate file and include it in a page whenever you need it. If the code depends on some variables then it can be created in a form of function. This way, the code can be used in whatever program (UD, Note Pad...). It sure lucks interface that extensions are providing but independece is advantage. My opinion is that many UD users aren't able to write the code mostly 'couse of extensions. I'm not trying to say that extensions aren't good things (ASP Upload is something I use almost on daily basis). Just don't be so dependent on them.

Viktor Farcic

TalkZone Manager

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>My opinion is that many UD users aren't able to write the code mostly 'couse of extensions. I'm not trying to say that extensions aren't good things (ASP Upload is something I use almost on daily basis). Just don't be so dependent on them.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Well said Victor, I agree a 100% with that.

Waldo Smeets -- www.UDzone.com Co-Founder
------------------------------------------
UDzone.com: The site for Macromedia
Dreamweaver UltraDev Developers!

Well Massimos snippet panel has been a big help to me. I always use snippets then extensions. I mean although have the extensions still use the snippets that i made myself from these extensions offcourse with some modifications.
There are two reasons for that firstly using some extensions coz the UD4 to crash sometimes. Secondly the modifications made were too time consuming and last but not least this way i can learn about ASP more.
So i agree with you guys.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'm not trying to say that extensions aren't good things (ASP Upload is something I use almost on daily basis). Just don't be so dependent on them.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

You do have a point in that many users are dependant on extensions. However, I don't think you are really looking at the whole point of extensions in the right way.

You say you use Pure ASP Upload almost every day (and why not it's a brilliant extension), but Pure ASP Upload <u>does</u> make use of an include file. Many of my extensions do too, and this has been purposely done. Why? Well for starters it's easier to maintain, but there is a second less obvious answer.

Extensions like Pure ASP Upload, IntelliCART and others, use include files to allow for those users who want to learn. I know, because that's how I started. I'm sure you were the same.

By making use of include files within extensions we help the user get a feel for what it's about. Then when they want to learn they can examine the include file, and any code inserted onto their page, and determine how they can use it elsewhere.

The fact that many users rely on extensions is testament to the brilliance of the Dreamweaver architecture. It truly is a RAD tool, and it is this that sets it apart from anything else.

I do agree, that more users should take the time to delve a little deeper, and learn something of the code that they are using. However, the reality is, that with pressing deadlines, and massive workloads, most users just want to know that it works, so that they can concentrate on something else.

Now, you can't blame them for that, can you?

Tim Green

Extension & PHP TalkZone Manager
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by developers.
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Now, you can't blame them for that, can you?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Umhh Vfarcic war goinon bro between zone managers. Take cool brothers you both of you
have point.
Under time pressure really one doesn't care bout the code, one just want to be sure that
it works. But what when sometime you have to make slight modifications?
So one should also invest time in looking at the include files and doesnot rely on extensions. So somehow you both are just saying the same? or ?

The extension learn indeed alot. I'm finding more and more my way in coding because off them!
So keep up the good work... And I hope the dust will settel soon about the diffrent PhP models...

My twopence worth:

First off, I think UD is a great tool and wouldn't wan't to build a site without it. I could build a site with Notepad, but I'd hate to think how long it would take me. However I think that UD itself without any additional extensions is itself partly to blame for some peoples over reliance on the click, select, drag method of coding and why there are often posts on the forums like "does anyone know an extension for XXXX", XXXX being something that requires about three lines of code.

The code that UD generates is a kind of "belt and braces, one size fits all", UD sets up variables all over the place and often creates overly long code that is quite tricky to read and interpret. Trying to learn how to code by looking at that which UD generates is much harder than learning from a decent book about VBScript, ASP or whatever particular scripting language you choose. It is often possible to replace 20 lines of UD's code with about 5 lines of your own and achieve the same function with an admitedly less universal chunk of code but one which is easy to read and interpret.

I've had a quick look at DW MX, I think that snipets feature is going to be used a lot!


Regards

Owen.

Multiple Parameter UD4 / Access 2000 Database Search Tutorial:
www.tdsf.co.uk/tdsfdemo

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Umhh Vfarcic war goinon bro between zone managers. Take cool brothers you both of you
have point.
Under time pressure really one doesn't care bout the code, one just want to be sure that
it works. But what when sometime you have to make slight modifications?
So one should also invest time in looking at the include files and doesnot rely on extensions. So somehow you both are just saying the same? or ?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Please don't take me literally. There is no war, and there isn't much of a disagreement either!

We all have our opinions, no-one is forcing anything on anyone else. I was purely providing another side to the argument, that perhaps vfarcic hadn't considered.

As for the last line in my previous post, please read this with your tongue firmly in cheek. It isn't meant to be taken too literally.

Cheers!

Tim Green

Extension & PHP TalkZone Manager
<font size=1>-------------------------------------------
<i>Please read the Forum FAQ before posting
a question to this TalkZone.</i>
-------------------------------------------
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Ultradev and Fireworks site for developers
by developers.
-------------------------------------------</font id=size1>

I suppose that we're (me and rawveg) both speaking of a same thing. I don't think that extensions are "evil" or something like that. Some of them are good and usefull (like ASP Upload, Intellicart). On the other hand, there are extensions like Conditional Region that are inserting two lines of code. Using extension like that you're not speeding production 'couse it takes you the same ammount of time to write &lt;% if something the something %&gt; instead of selecting part of the page and clicking on a icon. Disadvantage of extensions like that is that I saw many post with questions like: "Problems with Conditional Region...". So, use exensions written by others, write your own, use includes or whatever you like just take your time and try to understand what's happening in "Code View". Web developer who doesn't know how to make a page without extensions, tools, programs... can't call himself like that. Speeding things usually slows down whole project 'couse later you get stucked with problems 'couse of the "Conditional Region".

P.S. Conditional Region is a good extension and I didn't want to offend creator of it. I just took it as example.

Viktor Farcic

TalkZone Manager

Edited by - vfarcic on 02 May 2002 09:39:44

Haha, no offense taken <img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Indeed we all agree I think. And Conditional Region *is* a nice example for this situation: It can save time (it does for me) but you really need to know what you are doing. The problem is that most people don't and then this can cause some trouble. Especially for only 2 lines of words.

I think this shows that extensions are not good of bad per see, it depends on the one who uses it.

But uh.... this is getting pretty much Off Topic <img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Waldo Smeets -- www.UDzone.com Co-Founder
------------------------------------------
UDzone.com: The site for Macromedia
Dreamweaver UltraDev Developers!

I had all my favourite extensions installed for UD in extension manager. I installed DWMX and relised... where they gone. I went into Ext Mgr and imported them directly in. The only problem I have seemed to have was it took for ages to import cause I had to say yes to overwriting image files, etc. for each extension that where before.

Other than that, they all seem to work great.

_________________________
David Behan - www.bmor.com

haha, cool, i just asked how about the extensions, if they would work in MX and this whole discussion is started, pretty interesting...

I also agree with Waldo. Extensions can be great and saves you a lot of work, but only if you know what the extension does...

So the best would be to do everything yourself (all handcoding, with help of snippets) because you know exactly what your doing, but for my self, i am still pretty new at it.. and it is nice to see what can be done, so you can learn and see what the extension is doing, and learn from that.. don't depend on them blind....



Grrrr
Matthijs
----------------
UD4/WY2K/IIS/ASP-VB

a tool such as UD gives anybody the power to create a "relatively" complex database driven site, and this site can be constructed in a fast and "relatively" effective manner.

this has always been the beauty of UD.

If however u rely solely on one product (and the argument counts for platforms as well), then u bind yourself to the fate of a company/movement, a practice i would not consider logical or safe!

i use UD 'cause it develops fast, by defination asp is a RAD tool, but UD makes it superRAD. no other reason.

If however u consider yourself a web developer and u cannot write the code, then u should re-evaluate your position! U R tied to a product which u cannot leave, and solely dependant on the "case scenario's" this product caters for - anything more complex is unreachable!

to be honest it took me longer to figure out UD than asp (all those menu's floating around was absolutely mystifying in the begining!!)


anyway the point is : I agree with 'vfarcic' in his assesment of what extensions does(2 the user), but i would take it one step futher and say that UD also blunts the user to the way the code works...

I am getting awful problems with whatever extension I installed for the Command Menu. Anytime I try to access it, it gives me back 3 errors in a row and does not let me access the menu. I have uninstalled all my extensions that relate to the command menu, but I haven't pinned down the problem extension. When I do I will let you know. Any else got this problem?

_________________________
David Behan - www.site-manager.com/af.asp?a=11&l=1tds9p6x2

You're still running Drumbeat aren't you?<img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yet another reason NOT to buy Dreamweaver MX. The preview looks good, but there's absolutely NO WAY I am going to shell out more cash for the same extension I JUST BOUGHT.

Also, why buy something that you'll just have to pay more for (re-buying extensions, upgrades, etc.) and that ultimately, because it is not backward compatible with old extensions, you get LESS functionality out of?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If however u consider yourself a web developer and u cannot write the code, then u should re-evaluate your position! U R tied to a product which u cannot leave, and solely dependant on the "case scenario's" this product caters for - anything more complex is unreachable!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Curious, I discovered the past weeks the wonderfull world of ColdFusion, can you name a few scenario's where i could bump into problems, note that i'm dedicated to learning ColdFusion now that i've experienced the ease and power of it, ASP gave me trouble alot because there were no decent books teaching ASP/Jscript only VB, and also note that I can draw on a JAVA programmer if I find my TAGS insufficient, i was sceptic about Fusion i always thought it was big talk, but now that i've experienced it I'm trying very hard to convince my manager to buy me a Enterprise license so I can provide service right inside our customers environments, my manager was smiling and was stunned about how much thought i put into this. And my other manager is surfing the trial that's installed on this computer as we speak, i wonder what his thoughts on the flash interface with a coldfusion backend will be, my next expansion will be implementing mail to deliver it right back to them so i can say, see it works and it took me minutes to setup instead of 2 - 3 times as long if i were to do this in ASP, not to mention the asp object that i am FORBIDDEN to install. I think i'll be using the panels alot, since i can now write my own much easier.

And then to remember that a month ago i was ready to give up because i got sick of constantly having to translate the VB from my ASP book with a THICK Jscript/Javascript bible next to it whenever i needed a new function.

Extensions are cool and can be real timesavers but if, like me, you're bound by rules about scripts then you can get really annoyed at how many extention developers just ignore us Jscript users and now with this great new language I have plenty of arguments to break the rules and have them stand in line to talk to our product managers about the CFM pages that will start to popup with our clients using ASP#NET pages to talk to me. And probably the best argument won't be used because our company was to quick and now they want to talk to me, yeah right...get in line people.

No offence intended to extention developers i mentioned, some are great but out of my reach. And keep in mind that i'm still fairly new to web development, maybe i should add Junior somewhere in my signature... <img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

With kind regards,

Dennis van Galen
Webmaster KPN Services
Financial and Information Services